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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/02/18 8:53 am    Post subject: Logo height differences between LC v. regular 59F Reply with quote
Has anyone noticed this before? I've worn mostly low crown 59Fifties for the past two years, and (being thoroughly sick of ordering items I cannot inspect for flaws first...) picked up a regular crown 59F in a Lids for the first time in quite awhile yesterday.

Again Cubs (my only team) - I noticed that the logo looks very high on the cap when on my head in comparison to the LC's I've been wearing. Being my normal AR self, I did some research - this new cap has 6 vertical stitches below the C; most of my LC's have only 5 - with one only having 4. Looking at pics online both for retail Cubs hats and those actually worn on the field - this (the 6 stitches) seems to be the norm, at least for 2018. There are some exceptions (Yu Darvish seems to wear a cap with a noticeably lower logo on a regular crown) but that is the norm. Historically of course, with this exact same design for the Cubs (more or less unchanged since 1958...) the positioning is all over the place depending on date, manufacturer, material, etc. etc.

I don't think I have a problem; think that my issue right now is more the look of the cap in the mirror being different / new to me than any logo actually being out of place, but again this is one of those small detail things that I find intriguing. Has anyone noticed discrepancies with logo positioning (top to bottom over left to right) with other teams?

Here is the new cap in question. Logo to me looks perfect just looking at the cap - but high when on my head and in the mirror.

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Royal Laegotti
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Post Posted: 08/02/18 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Logo height differences between LC v. regular 59F Reply with quote
jchcollins wrote:
Has anyone noticed this before? I've worn mostly low crown 59Fifties for the past two years, and (being thoroughly sick of ordering items I cannot inspect for flaws first...) picked up a regular crown 59F in a Lids for the first time in quite awhile yesterday.

Again Cubs (my only team) - I noticed that the logo looks very high on the cap when on my head in comparison to the LC's I've been wearing. Being my normal AR self, I did some research - this new cap has 6 vertical stitches below the C; most of my LC's have only 5 - with one only having 4. Looking at pics online both for retail Cubs hats and those actually worn on the field - this (the 6 stitches) seems to be the norm, at least for 2018. There are some exceptions (Yu Darvish seems to wear a cap with a noticeably lower logo on a regular crown) but that is the norm. Historically of course, with this exact same design for the Cubs (more or less unchanged since 1958...) the positioning is all over the place depending on date, manufacturer, material, etc. etc.

I don't think I have a problem; think that my issue right now is more the look of the cap in the mirror being different / new to me than any logo actually being out of place, but again this is one of those small detail things that I find intriguing. Has anyone noticed discrepancies with logo positioning (top to bottom over left to right) with other teams?

Here is the new cap in question. Logo to me looks perfect just looking at the cap - but high when on my head and in the mirror.

Honestly I think it looks great as far as that goes. The problem Iíve seen most with Cubs hats is the logo being off centered to the left. But yours looks great!
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/02/18 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Logo height differences between LC v. regular 59F Reply with quote
Royal Laegotti wrote:
The problem Iíve seen most with Cubs hats is the logo being off centered to the left. But yours looks great!


Yeah. I've learned over the years that the horizontal logo centering as a problem on Cubs hats is incredibly common - either a tad too far left or to the right - and can be found on caps that are otherwise very nice. This is something you notice on player's caps as well during interviews and when the shot is close enough. The Cubs for one (I don't know about other teams) do seem to wear only USA-made on the field...is it bad I can tell? But they do still get some O/C logos. Some players clearly don't mind it. And unless you are right up on it - it does not look horrible. I have a LP USA made Cubs hat that is about 2 years old (mail ordered from Fanatics, so I didn't have a choice) which has the "skew left" logo variety where there is more blue on the inner crook of the C to the left of the seam than to the right where it is open. At first it really bothered me, but the cap is cherry, virtually perfect in every other respect - and the logo once on your head does not look O/C at all. I've found myself wearing that one more and more when I go for a LC cap. If I'm buying in the store I will always go for a truly dead-centered logo, but unfortunately the choice of LC caps in my local stores is either none or very scant - and mostly Chino crap.
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Guy Gadbois
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Post Posted: 08/02/18 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Logo height definitely varies but it's generally not as noticeable to me as an uncentered logo. My eye has really only been drawn to it a few times and funnily enough they were all Indians caps. Wahoo looks low on my home cap and the block C is clearly in different positions on my navy and red caps respectively.

FWIW, I don't think I would have noticed anything off about your Cubs logo. It's the off-centered 'C' logo caps that drive me absolutely crazy. A few of my Reds caps have that issue.

Edit: Ugh, two proofreading edits needed for this. What a mess. Embarassed


Last edited by Guy Gadbois on 08/02/18 12:43 pm; edited 3 times in total
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/02/18 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Guy Gadbois wrote:

It's the off-centered 'C' logo caps that drive me absolutely crazy. A of my Reds caps have that issue.


LOL, yes Guy I think you and I have discussed this before. I have to admit they drive me crazy as well if really bad...but I have a few that are off and not horrible that I will admit to wearing, and they have grown on me. It could be just me, but this did not happen I don't think - or at least as often back in the pre-Poly days. I had (and still have) multiple wool Cubs DC caps in the 1990's as a kid, and they all had dead centered logos. Maybe I am forgetting passing over the bad ones in the stores. Also I have a 1985-87 pre-DC wool cap with just the inside batterman logo, and the old school NE size tag. It's logo is dead centered as well. Some people will claim NE has always had their QC issues, but I really think it used to be better.
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Scott8030
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Post Posted: 08/04/18 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've found that some logos and styles look better in low crown than others. Specifically, bigger logos don't do as well. As an Orioles fan, I think the bird is too big to work well as a low crown. White panel fronts also don't work great, which means the Orioles home hat is doubly bad.

I have a Washington Nationals low crown and it seems to work fine.
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/06/18 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scott8030 wrote:
I've found that some logos and styles look better in low crown than others. Specifically, bigger logos don't do as well. As an Orioles fan, I think the bird is too big to work well as a low crown. White panel fronts also don't work great, which means the Orioles home hat is doubly bad.

I have a Washington Nationals low crown and it seems to work fine.


Agreed. I think the Cubs looks fine on either; it's relatively small. The logo is higher on a full-crown, but not "wrong" and does not look bad - I just have to get used to it being different.
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Scott8030
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Post Posted: 08/06/18 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jchcollins wrote:
Scott8030 wrote:
I've found that some logos and styles look better in low crown than others. Specifically, bigger logos don't do as well. As an Orioles fan, I think the bird is too big to work well as a low crown. White panel fronts also don't work great, which means the Orioles home hat is doubly bad.

I have a Washington Nationals low crown and it seems to work fine.


Agreed. I think the Cubs looks fine on either; it's relatively small. The logo is higher on a full-crown, but not "wrong" and does not look bad - I just have to get used to it being different.


For awhile, I was all in on low crowns, but I've switched back to standard crowns, for the most part. I think you said you've taken the same path. The low crown hats are great because they break in so easily. However, I feel like I cannot pull them down far enough on my head. Like you said, they look absolutely fine, but they do take some getting used to.

I mostly went with low crowns on a few MiLB hats to ensure MUSA.
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/06/18 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scott8030 wrote:

For awhile, I was all in on low crowns, but I've switched back to standard crowns, for the most part. I think you said you've taken the same path. The low crown hats are great because they break in so easily. However, I feel like I cannot pull them down far enough on my head. Like you said, they look absolutely fine, but they do take some getting used to.

I mostly went with low crowns on a few MiLB hats to ensure MUSA.


Yes, in the end I did take the same path. But only because regular crown caps made in the USA are so much more readily available, and able to be inspected before purchase in my area. LC caps fit me and my (relatively innocuously small) 7 1/8 or 1/4 noggin better - no doubt about it. But to get a LC for the most part means ordering online from MLB.com / Fanatics (Hat Club for whatever reason doesn't seem to carry many LC...) - and that of course is a crapshoot where I stand at least a 50% chance on a 2 cap order of getting 100% Chino crap, or even if otherwise nice MUSA - o/c logos, o/c bills, etc. etc. you name. it.

At the end of the day if I had my pick I would choose LC, but sometimes it's worth it to go ahead and get the regular version if I'm able to pick out a really cherry cap with nearly everything perfect in-store. I learned only somewhat recently after examining various pics of me in different caps - yeah, if you are really paying attention the LC fits better - but it's also kinda hard to tell the difference if you're not me.


Last edited by jchcollins on 10/22/18 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/10/18 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok, back to the original post topic. Is it ridiculously picky to call where the C logo falls on the stitch line a variation? Because turns out there are plenty of MUSA, regular crown on-fields that have the C sitting on the 5th stitch and not the 6th. And um...as of today I now own both variations.

Someone help me, I've got problems... Shocked
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 08/16/18 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have three eras of Cubs on fields. 92 ish, 2003ish, and 2010ish.

What's the physical measurement of the logo, up from the bill? I was cleaning some caps and remembered this thread and measured the C height from the bottom.. Pretty much each one was 7/8 of an inch from the cardboard. Stitch distance varies too, so that alone doesnt say much.

Interesting note, and this may be only a early year variation, but the C on the 92 era is not centered. It's shifted to the left a bit. A lot like the Florida F logo. The edge of the white border C is very close to the right vertical stitch line, whereas the later editions seem to be perfectly centered.

edit: reading back on this thread, I guess Im lucky that my older caps are centered. Odd that in a time we consider to be the quality Mecca, we see off centered issues 25+ years back

This got me interested. I have many duplicates, so I may try to see what the norm is on a couple caps. I've seen the twins TC being crooked or off center, but havent really ever noticed the logo height on these caps. Time to investigate
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/16/18 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wallyhopp wrote:
What's the physical measurement of the logo, up from the bill?


Interesting once I took time to investigate this further:

I have 2 nearly brand new, 2018 Cubs regular crown on-field 595F's. Both size 7 1/4. On one (the one I think is the "tall" logo...) the C starts 7/8 of an inch up from the bill. On the other (the one that I think is a more "normal" logo) - it starts 3/4 of an inch up. I don't think either cap looks odd when looking at them side by side on the table. You can tell that the logo on the first one I mentioned is a slight tad higher with the naked eye, but it doesn't look bad. On my head however - like just looking in the mirror - it seems more obvious to me. I guess this is because with the cap on my head above my eyes - I can see less of the blue field of it above the logo on the 7/8 one than I can when just looking at it sitting on the table.

This becomes even more odd when looking at my other two 59F's that are Low Crown. They are older, but both still at least 2016 or newer. On my regular LC Cubs, the logo is 7/8 of an inch up, exactly the same height as on my "tall" regular crown cap. On my other one, which is a World Series cap - the logo is even lower, the lowest one I have - checking in at only 5/8 of an inch above the bill. This one to me does look noticeably "low" when looking at the cap head on - but does not look bad when worn on my head.

Why is this kind of minutia even important?!?! I don't know but I notice it and it drives me nuts. The lower, 3/4 logo is probably my favorite on the regular crown cap, and the higher, 7/8 is probably my favorite on the LC. For some reason the 7/8 on the LC does not look as odd to me on my head as it does in the regular crown! This cap btw also has the "left shift" thing going on with the logo in terms of positioning compared to the vertical stitch going down the center - in that most of the logo field in the crook of the C wound up to the left of that stitch, with less area on the right. It is noticeable if you are staring right at it, but on my head it is totally fine and seems very well centered w/ the bill.

Yes again just to confirm...I've got issues.
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 08/16/18 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another variable, at least for me, is LCs look terrible on my head. Even older wools that have smashed and bashed in crowns and appear to look the same 'on paper', look different on my head. I have a chino LC black mets, poly black mets, and a wool black mets, and the the logo height positioning is all the same But its just different on my head. LCs look like little kids hats on my head. but I realize im a larger size.

I have some really beat up polys with smashed crowns and once again, the specific LCs look terrible in comparison. I have some beat up chino wools that used to be elmer fudd caps but have settled in to be the perfect crown look. Some have had like 10 years of constant wear. They smell. Their brims are brown and flimsy. But that crown look is still better than the pre made shallow look of LCs.

bottomline, I think more than anything, its the different eras of materials, where its being made, how its made, and what year it was made. I have a few late 80s on fields that look like trucker hats. Elmer Fudd before that was even a thing. Then things smoothed out a bit for a few decades.

A chino retro and an on field could look identical side by side but theres just sometimes something internally that makes them different. I think that has to be more of the case here than a 1/8 of a inch variation. The shallowness has to be playing a visual factor imho
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 08/17/18 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
wallyhopp wrote:
Another variable, at least for me, is LCs look terrible on my head. Even older wools that have smashed and bashed in crowns and appear to look the same 'on paper', look different on my head. I have a chino LC black mets, poly black mets, and a wool black mets, and the the logo height positioning is all the same But its just different on my head. LCs look like little kids hats on my head. but I realize im a larger size.

I have some really beat up polys with smashed crowns and once again, the specific LCs look terrible in comparison. I have some beat up chino wools that used to be elmer fudd caps but have settled in to be the perfect crown look. Some have had like 10 years of constant wear. They smell. Their brims are brown and flimsy. But that crown look is still better than the pre made shallow look of LCs.

bottomline, I think more than anything, its the different eras of materials, where its being made, how its made, and what year it was made. I have a few late 80s on fields that look like trucker hats. Elmer Fudd before that was even a thing. Then things smoothed out a bit for a few decades.

A chino retro and an on field could look identical side by side but theres just sometimes something internally that makes them different. I think that has to be more of the case here than a 1/8 of a inch variation. The shallowness has to be playing a visual factor imho


Yeah it's unfortunate that some of the older wools had such issues with fit and crown. I have some really nice, rather immaculately sewn DC and AC wools from the 80's and 90's that have perfectly centered and sewn logos, but they look ridiculous on my head. They are nice pieces (some with the old flat sewn logos) to put on a bookshelf or something, but otherwise useless.

Re: the difference between regular crown and low profile, I would agree if you have a larger head size it's difficult to make the LP's work. I wear either a 7-1/8 (in LC) or 7-1/4, so it's not a problem for me. I actually prefer the LP's, but they generally don't stock them in store around here, so for the most part I have gone back to regular crown so I will have the ability to pick out my own - an at least decently USA-made - cap.
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