Indians fans: interesting find . TBTC from 2008.View previous topic :: View next topic  
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 08/21/19 8:25 pm    Post subject: Indians fans: interesting find . TBTC from 2008. Reply with quote
I spotted something interesting this past week on eBay.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F133118802483
Can anyone tell me what’s wrong with it?

——
It actually dates to a day later than the authentication but it happened.
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/masahide-kobayashi-of-the-cleveland-indians-pitches-against-the-on-picture-id82046128?s=2048x2048
———-
Some interesting notes.

-It’s the wrong wahoo. It’s in fact, the same wahoo used on the 2017 lids retro classic run.
The bottom of wahoos face didn’t have a navy outline on the original, or heck, even the Chinese customs and HC customs got it right with the raised wahoo head. Something about flat stitching and logos new era hasn’t gotten right since literally 1996.

- the team never wore green under wahoos. There was a retail lineup of sports specialities that had green. Most snapback new eras even had green too.

It’s just interesting to look back and see that even in new eras hey day, they were inaccurate.

In 2008, they were just 5-6 years removed from the big wahoo (11-12 if you count the flat logo ending around 1996).

To compare. Here’s a 94-95 era original against a retro classic

And compare that to the eBay link


9 years between the 2008 tbtc cap and 2017, you’d think they could get it right.

So if anyone ever wanted to know where that 2017 retro classic logo came from , we now know. They basically took the smaller wahoo, blew it up in size, and flattened it without a care in the world that the original flat wahoo had its own characteristics.
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baby dhibs
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Post Posted: 08/22/19 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What was really interesting to me about the Retro Classic line is that they redid a lot of the logos (incorrectly) to caps where you can already get legit Chinese wool versions with correct logos at places like Mickey’s Place or Hatland. It’s like they went to more effort to get it wrong. How?
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 08/22/19 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah Mickey's place has a lot of the colors and logos down perfect. Most chinese customs have had it right for decades too.

In my opinion, lids went out and recreated almost all of their own logos, pretty much without any historical basis. They mostly had raised logos in their database and didn't know how to translate that to the flat platform. The flat logos ended up being 40% too big, 40% too small, or around 20% accurate. They went flat for flat sake, instead of trying to actually be size accurate. Not every logo of that era needed to be a flat logo either. So their whole position was misguided x 1000 .

They did go out of their way to be completely stubborn. A flat mis sized logo is not more ideal than a standard logo they've used for decades.

I just found it interesting to see a retro classic design born in 2008 and used again in 2017. Maybe new eras database had a flat wahoo wrong for all these years. I won't get on lids for that one. But all the others? Yeah. It's all on them.

The fact that for 50-60 of them, they couldn't just increase or decrease the logo size makes it seem like they did do it intentionally. It's all computer machine stitched now. A change in sizing takes mere Seconds to make.
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Erie Warrior
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Post Posted: 08/22/19 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure Lids used the Wahoo from the sleeve patches, for the Retro collection. That would explain the every thick white outline around Wahoo.

As for the ebay listing, I don't remember the Indians wearing those, but could have missed that game.





[img]Cleveland Indians Retro Collection by Craig, on Flickr[/img]
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 08/23/19 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good catch. After all this time, I didn't realize that cap logo was simply the sleeve logo that they've had since the beginning.
Getty images has a whole gang of photos from that game
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/july-19-2008-indians-mariners?family=editorial&page=3&phrase=July%2019%202008%20Indians%20mariners&sort=newest#license
. The Mariners wore their blue and yellow set from the same time period.

I just find it odd that even in 2008, they couldn't find the real flat big wahoo to put on a cap. Yet even Chinese producers haven't flubbed on the raised wahoo. An accurate flat wahoo reproduction doesn't exist. For a logo they used for 8 or so years, it's one of those weird moments in history. It makes you wonder why they even created a separate cap logo when the sleeve patch was around for 7-9 yrs prior.
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Erie Warrior
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Post Posted: 08/23/19 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wallyhopp wrote:
Good catch. After all this time, I didn't realize that cap logo was simply the sleeve logo that they've had since the beginning.
Getty images has a whole gang of photos from that game
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/july-19-2008-indians-mariners?family=editorial&page=3&phrase=July%2019%202008%20Indians%20mariners&sort=newest#license
. The Mariners wore their blue and yellow set from the same time period.

I just find it odd that even in 2008, they couldn't find the real flat big wahoo to put on a cap. Yet even Chinese producers haven't flubbed on the raised wahoo. An accurate flat wahoo reproduction doesn't exist. For a logo they used for 8 or so years, it's one of those weird moments in history. It makes you wonder why they even created a separate cap logo when the sleeve patch was around for 7-9 yrs prior.


That's pretty cool. I must have missed that game. That's interesting seeing Tribe players, from 11 years ago wearing jerseys from 26 years ago.

Who knows? I'm still trying to figure out why they shrunk the Wahoo on the caps, in 2003. The large Wahoo looks better.
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baby dhibs
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Post Posted: 08/23/19 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Erie Warrior wrote:
wallyhopp wrote:
Good catch. After all this time, I didn't realize that cap logo was simply the sleeve logo that they've had since the beginning.
Getty images has a whole gang of photos from that game
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/july-19-2008-indians-mariners?family=editorial&page=3&phrase=July%2019%202008%20Indians%20mariners&sort=newest#license
. The Mariners wore their blue and yellow set from the same time period.

I just find it odd that even in 2008, they couldn't find the real flat big wahoo to put on a cap. Yet even Chinese producers haven't flubbed on the raised wahoo. An accurate flat wahoo reproduction doesn't exist. For a logo they used for 8 or so years, it's one of those weird moments in history. It makes you wonder why they even created a separate cap logo when the sleeve patch was around for 7-9 yrs prior.


That's pretty cool. I must have missed that game. That's interesting seeing Tribe players, from 11 years ago wearing jerseys from 26 years ago.

Who knows? I'm still trying to figure out why they shrunk the Wahoo on the caps, in 2003. The large Wahoo looks better.


Agree, I also didn’t like that “almost kind of purple” shade of blue, and didn’t like the silver outline either. Moving to blue undershirts instead of red sucked, too. That was a great example of a little uniform tweak that made the set a LOT worse IMO even though it retained the flavor of the original.
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Erie Warrior
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Post Posted: 08/25/19 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
baby dhibs wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:
wallyhopp wrote:
Good catch. After all this time, I didn't realize that cap logo was simply the sleeve logo that they've had since the beginning.
Getty images has a whole gang of photos from that game
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/july-19-2008-indians-mariners?family=editorial&page=3&phrase=July%2019%202008%20Indians%20mariners&sort=newest#license
. The Mariners wore their blue and yellow set from the same time period.

I just find it odd that even in 2008, they couldn't find the real flat big wahoo to put on a cap. Yet even Chinese producers haven't flubbed on the raised wahoo. An accurate flat wahoo reproduction doesn't exist. For a logo they used for 8 or so years, it's one of those weird moments in history. It makes you wonder why they even created a separate cap logo when the sleeve patch was around for 7-9 yrs prior.


That's pretty cool. I must have missed that game. That's interesting seeing Tribe players, from 11 years ago wearing jerseys from 26 years ago.

Who knows? I'm still trying to figure out why they shrunk the Wahoo on the caps, in 2003. The large Wahoo looks better.


Agree, I also didn’t like that “almost kind of purple” shade of blue, and didn’t like the silver outline either. Moving to blue undershirts instead of red sucked, too. That was a great example of a little uniform tweak that made the set a LOT worse IMO even though it retained the flavor of the original.


Yeah, I didn't like the lighter blue. You are right, in certain light, it has as purple tone to it.

At first, I hated the silver. By the time I warmed up to it, they dumped it.
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 08/26/19 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My favorite cap of theirs may be their cursive I with the dark Navy with silver outline. I think anywhere from 2002-2004, they wore it. The last year of wool, it was still silver outlined but it moved to light Navy. Even your batterman had silver accents.

In 2002, the big wahoo was still on the home cap with dark Navy, while a white outlined road cap with smaller wahoo and lighter Navy existed. Throw in a dark Navy cursive I with silver and it was a sloppy year.

The silver on the wahoo always felt out of place. Maybe because those caps didn't have a silver batterman to provide some balance. Both cursive I wools had silver battermens

It's one of those oddities they got me back into collecting hats
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Post Posted: 09/02/19 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also I don't think Indians ever used green underbrim while using Wahoo on their caps, that's another failed. I also noticed in the movie Major league they wear green underbrim on their hats
Can someone correct me if I'm wrong ?
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 09/03/19 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Correct. Sports specialties had a retail fitted lineup with green under. All of the new era snapbacks of that era have green under

It's just assumed by everyone including new era that every team had green in the 70s, 80s, into the mid 90s.
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el_gmac
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Post Posted: 09/03/19 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wallyhopp wrote:
Correct. Sports specialties had a retail fitted lineup with green under. All of the new era snapbacks of that era have green under

It's just assumed by everyone including new era that every team had green in the 70s, 80s, into the mid 90s.

or maybe whoever place the order with green underbrim watched Major League as reference
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 09/03/19 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
^True. My first late 80s new era wahoo fitted bought 7-8 years ago features a grey under. It seemed wrong. Major league had taught me otherwise. I had to look at old trading cards and Getty images to correct that mindset. It's mind boggling that not one person within the organization said anything about the 2008 TBTC cap. It's quite the oddity.
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XclickX
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Post Posted: 09/10/19 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I grabbed the cap from eBay. It’s light navy iirc. Should be dark navy I believe.
Another mess up.
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