Chinese Poly Crap - Forehead Rub solutionView previous topic :: View next topic  
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 11/20/16 7:32 pm    Post subject: Chinese Poly Crap - Forehead Rub solution Reply with quote
Apologies if this is not the proper place in the forum, but it's where I've been posting other stuff lately:

See the attached. It's not the most elegant solution, but it works. What you see under the hood (stitched loosely) is gray blanket felt. This is one of two low-crown NE on-field Cubs 5950 WS caps I recently received in the mail from MLB.com. The other one is MUSA and much higher quality. This cap (despite being excellent by Made In China standards - straight logos, visor board, and other areas of concern) - nonetheless rubbed the hell out of my forehead, leaving a red whelt every time I wore it for more than approx. 30 minutes in the past two weeks. Now - though some form of red mark still stubbornly remains on my head - at least I don't get a headache when wearing the cap.

What gives with the crappy chinese poly issues? Is the material really just that much rougher to where I cannot expect faux sunburn whenever I take the cap off? Just feeling with my fingertips on the same area of other and MUSA caps - I will admit I cannot tell any dramatic difference. The quality of this cap otherwise is at most B- compared to an MUSA cap - lower quality poly, visor has issues despite being sewn-on straight (the only reason I'm keeping the cap...), etc.

I WILL wear this cap. It cost too much money to just straight ship back to MLB without trying to fix, (absent the guarantee of exchanging for another MUSA cap) and it appears that I have finally made it wearable. Just frustrating beyond all belief.



-John
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Scott8030
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bring in a young priest and an old priest. It is the only way to get rid of Chinese polyester hats!

The sweatband may soften over time. I have a few made in the USA MiLB hats that have rough sweatbands. They have improved a little, but do still leave a red mark on my head.

Is the red mark across your entire forehead or does the hat leave a small red "dent" in your forehead? If it is the second one, I have had success ironing down the bump on the sweatband that causes the red mark and dent.

I'm OK with a hat leaving a red mark as long as it fades quickly. I had a MiLB hat once that felt fine when I was wearing it, but put a red mark on my head that would take an hour to fade. I'm OK with a few minutes, not an hour.
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's more of the small red dent variety. Problem is, I cannot really identify any one "bump" in the sweatband that is doing it. It feels pretty uniform to me, and although it fits with the same snugness that I like my other caps to fit (7 1/Cool - I guess just in that one area it is too tight. I may take an iron and just steam over the felt that I sewed in that area to see if it will soften while still leaving the felt in.

Another thing about this cap, it's been impossible to get the "knee trick" to work on it to pop some of the stitching in the band to make it looser. Say what you will about the Chinese quality (I have) but the cap not being sewn together well is certainly not part of the problem.
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Scott8030
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
In my collection, the small red dent issue is not unique to Chinese made hats. If the bump is small, the iron method should help a good deal. If the bump is larger, ironing will only help, but not fix, the issue. If I order a hat and the bump in the front is too pronounced, I return it, because I know I won't be happy with it.

From what I can tell, the bump is caused by the seam at the front of the hat. Some hats don't have it at all and others have a huge bump. I've even noticed it on the pre-2007 wool hats. However, it is not a big deal with those hats, because the sweatbands are so padded.

My main issue with the Chinese made hats is the crown. The buckram is as stiff as a board and way too high for me to wear.
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scott8030 wrote:

My main issue with the Chinese made hats is the crown. The buckram is as stiff as a board and way too high for me to wear.


Yeah, I am with you there on the regular crowns. This one is a low-crown, but the front two panel are still very stiff which I think adds to the problem.

Cannot get over how crappy the QC is for New Era. I used to think it was recent, but after studying these caps more, I've come to realize that problems on some level with 5950's have existed for decades. If they would just pay a little bit more attention - a well-made 5950 is a thing of beauty. I would gladly pay $10 more a cap if there could be some kind of guarantee that a higher percentage of the product was high quality.
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Guy Gadbois
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jchcollins wrote:
Yeah, I am with you there on the regular crowns. This one is a low-crown, but the front two panel are still very stiff which I think adds to the problem


It's been a while since I bought a low crown but I remember the stiffness of those front panels being one of reasons I stopped buying. They made the cap uncomfortable on my temple, not because they left a mark but rather because they felt constrictive. Never had that problem with similarly low AC wool crowns.

jchcollins wrote:
Cannot get over how crappy the QC is for New Era. I used to think it was recent, but after studying these caps more, I've come to realize that problems on some level with 5950's have existed for decades. If they would just pay a little bit more attention - a well-made 5950 is a thing of beauty. I would gladly pay $10 more a cap if there could be some kind of guarantee that a higher percentage of the product was high quality.


Hat Club is kind of offering this at this point. Their cost is at around $10-15 more than what you'd pay with a Lids card or on Ebay but they offer free shipping/returns now and will confirm MUSA before shipping.
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Guy Gadbois wrote:

Hat Club is kind of offering this at this point. Their cost is at around $10-15 more than what you'd pay with a Lids card or on Ebay but they offer free shipping/returns now and will confirm MUSA before shipping.


Thanks. That's an idea, but despite all of my posts lately - I don't really buy that many hats. I do own a lot of Cubs (only) hats, but I don't really consider myself a collector. I do like to have more than one at any given time that I can wear on a regular basis - and here with the WS win, I have gone a bit overboard with that memorabilia. I would like to just be able to find a decent hat that will work without a ton of trouble, even if I'm only buying once a year. Here lately that just seems like a tall order with New Era.
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Scott8030
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Agreed. Chinese low crown hats do not look goofy, like their standard crown counterparts. I own two LC Chinese made hats and the fit is fine and they look good on my head. But you're right, the buckram is still hard as a rock.

Guy, I'll have to re-examine the buckram on my made in the USA LCs to see if they are also excessively stiff. I guess I have not paid too much attention, since I do not have to lower the crowns on them.

My MiLB hats, even thought they are USA made, are not that great in terms of quality. The poly isn't the best, and the sweatband are definitely rougher. The overall fit isn't great either. Anyone interested in some LC MiLB hats, size 7 5/8?!?! Very Happy
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Guy Gadbois
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Post Posted: 11/21/16 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scott8030 wrote:
Guy, I'll have to re-examine the buckram on my made in the USA LCs to see if they are also excessively stiff. I guess I have not paid too much attention, since I do not have to lower the crowns on them.


I think it might actually be the polyester that bothers me on the low crowns. The material doesn't give like wool so I end up 'feeling' the cap against my forehead whereas a looser high crown of course doesn't do that. My almost skull cap-low AC wool crowns don't bother me either, nor do my two Chino poly low crowns.

Scott8030 wrote:
My MiLB hats, even thought they are USA made, are not that great in terms of quality. The poly isn't the best, and the sweatband are definitely rougher. The overall fit isn't great either. Anyone interested in some LC MiLB hats, size 7 5/8?!?! Very Happy


I actually might. Been looking to try a size up with a low crown to see if that helps my problem. Which caps are you looking to sell, Scott?
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Scott8030
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Post Posted: 11/22/16 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The crowns are definitely a bit higher on my Chinese made LC hats. You're right, Guy, that is not necessary a bad thing with LC hats. Some of my USA made LC hats do fit right up against my forehead. I've discover how that looks really depends on the hat. For example, I do not think white panel fronts do well with low crowns. As an Orioles fan, I run into this issue. Taking it a step further, I do not think the Orioles bird logo looks great, at least one me, on LC hats. The bird looks like it is tilted too far back.
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 11/22/16 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Update on this solution: It's not working as well as I thought. The felt I put in the front crown helps a bit with the red mark on my forehead, but it makes the overall space tighter and just as uncomfortable. I took it out last night and went back to the drawing board. Really not sure what to do. I've stretched this cap to the extent I can and I think that the problem is not that it's too tight, it's just with the stiffness of the buckram and the angle of the front panels themselves with my head. It doesn't feel too tight, (indeed it feels looser than some other caps that I own...) but after about 5 mins. I start to feel that tingle again that I know means it's making the red mark on my forehead.

Any further suggestions at this point would be much appreciated. I'm determined to make this cap wearable. What I get for already inscribing my initials inside in sharpie...I can't send it back. Sad
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 11/22/16 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scott8030 wrote:
But you're right, the buckram is still hard as a rock.


Is there a way to soften the buckram? This morning i steamed the hell out of the inside of the cap with my iron, but it's still as hard as a rock. I wonder if getting it just soaking wet would get rid of some of the starch or whatever is on it and make it softer. I may try that later today.

This really should not be that freaking hard for a cap I paid $38 for. It should just work right the first time.
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Scott8030
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Post Posted: 11/22/16 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is why I avoid the Chinese hats, no matter how well one might seem to be put together.

No more how much you stretch the hat, it is not going to stop the red mark/bump from forming on your head. The solution is lowering the bump in the sweatband that is causing the issue. Try ironing it down. Give it a few tries, it will help, at least a little bit.

You can soften the buckram a little bit. Tip of the cap to seawolf for offering me this suggestion. Soak the front panels of your cap. I would soak the sweatband too - see if you soften it up at the same time. Toss your cap, by itself, in the dryer for about 10-15 minutes and see how it is doing. Continue with the process until the hat is dry. You might have to repeat this process a few times.
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Guy Gadbois
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Post Posted: 11/22/16 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jchcollins wrote:
Is there a way to soften the buckram? This morning i steamed the hell out of the inside of the cap with my iron, but it's still as hard as a rock. I wonder if getting it just soaking wet would get rid of some of the starch or whatever is on it and make it softer. I may try that later today.


I've received old poly's off Ebay with pretty much completely broken down buckram so it is possible to soften it. These are MUSA's however; probably have to lower your expectations with Chinos. I've heard some on here have thrown the cap into the dryer with decent results.

Soaking the buckram can help to shrink it/lower the crown but it hasn't softened it in my experience. I did permanently soften a rock hard brim with water alone but the materials are different. I assume that my old poly's with warped and soft buckram got that way in part from repeated wear while sweating heavily, so the trick could be prolonged exposure to warm moisture. Problem with that is manually and rapidly achieving that can ruin the poly.

jchcollins wrote:
This really should not be that freaking hard for a cap I paid $38 for. It should just work right the first time.


This is essentially why I never pulled the trigger on a 59fifty during over a decade of checking them out at ballparks. They're basically DIY projects for those of us who don't like high crowns and flat brims. Laughing
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jchcollins
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Post Posted: 11/22/16 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scott8030 wrote:
This is why I avoid the Chinese hats, no matter how well one might seem to be put together.

No more how much you stretch the hat, it is not going to stop the red mark/bump from forming on your head. The solution is lowering the bump in the sweatband that is causing the issue. Try ironing it down. Give it a few tries, it will help, at least a little bit.

You can soften the buckram a little bit. Tip of the cap to seawolf for offering me this suggestion. Soak the front panels of your cap. I would soak the sweatband too - see if you soften it up at the same time. Toss your cap, by itself, in the dryer for about 10-15 minutes and see how it is doing. Continue with the process until the hat is dry. You might have to repeat this process a few times.


Thanks for the advice. I'm beyond frustrated right now. I do also have an MUSA low profile cap just like this which will not be a problem. As much as I just want to fix this one, I may switch and make the USA cap my primary one and pickup and try to work with this Chinese piece a few years from now once I'm over it.

Other possibility, though this may be beyond difficult. Has anyone tried a patch transplant before? I could try to remove the WS patch from this Chinese cap and move it to another Cubs cap (probably a 3930 that I don't have a problem with). I'm pretty sure I could get it off but then what would you use to affix it to another cap - super glue? I know that would probably be risky at best.
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