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Royal Laegotti
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Post Posted: 03/02/18 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Guy Gadbois wrote:
shane618 wrote:
That doesn't look half bad. I have a buddy who ordered a couple online, and both came in and were pretty brutal from a construction standpoint. Sent them both back. I suppose, like is so often the case with hats and lids especially - it's possible to find a good one, you just have to go in, try them on, and then sort out the defects.

That kind of surprises me. All the caps I handled were essentially identical as far as construction goes, warts and all.

---

Ended up breaking all the rules I've developed for working on MUSA poly. I had forgotten how difficult it is to make a Chino crown presentable. Besides the general stiffness (which MUSA w/IM caps have now as well to varying degrees), the real issue is the lack of pinches at the base of the crown. The damned thing just looks fugly as hell on the head when you apply the usual MUSA poly techniques on it.

So in this case, I ended up first baking it at 300 for 6 minutes. This created a decent fit but also warped the buckram somewhat. Then I soaked the both the crown and brim in warm water (brim was stiff as a rock) and smashed the crown on my head while also curving the brim. Smashing was necessary to remove the exaggerated point above the logo (I tolerate those on DC wools but it looked ridiculous on this) and also to get a good shape without the help of the previously mentioned pinches. In the end, I think it ended up looking pretty close to Galarraga is wearing below, which was my goal once I realized it couldn't be worn like a MUSA poly. I'm irritated that the crown warped though. I'm thinking you might be best off buying these caps a little snug and Hat Jacking them rather than looking for a good flat brim fit in store like I did.

The cap is now incredibly comfortable on the head. I generally prefer a higher crown with minimal work done on it now but this seems to want a more relaxed fit. I'll be very interested to see how it handles the hot & humid summers in eastern PA.








So is this hat MUSA, China or MUSA wIM?
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CMPunk
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Post Posted: 03/02/18 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The whole line is Made in China.
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Guy Gadbois
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Post Posted: 03/10/18 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Took another go at fixing my BP Retro Classic. Nu-cap and an iron greatly reduced the crown wrinkles while also restoring some of the original height. These have Chino-stiff brims so a little steam allowed me to flatten the brim fairly quickly.

But after all that, the ugly Chino crown bulge returned as well. As I said before, I think this is largely due to lack of 'pinches' at the base of the crown. So I took a hairdryer to soften the buckram and then manually pinched the bottom corners of the crown myself. Initial results are promising but the overall Chino stiffness of the crown causes side effects to occur elsewhere when you work on individual parts of the crown (MUSA w/IM caps have the same problem but not as severe). Still, it looks better than it did before so I'll repeat the process a few times and see where it takes me.

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Royal Laegotti
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Joined: 24 May 2010
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Post Posted: 03/10/18 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Guy Gadbois wrote:
Took another go at fixing my BP Retro Classic. Nu-cap and an iron greatly reduced the crown wrinkles while also restoring some of the original height. These have Chino-stiff brims so a little steam allowed me to flatten the brim fairly quickly.

But after all that, the ugly Chino crown bulge returned as well. As I said before, I think this is largely due to lack of 'pinches' at the base of the crown. So I took a hairdryer to soften the buckram and then manually pinched the bottom corners of the crown myself. Initial results are promising but the overall Chino stiffness of the crown causes side effects to occur elsewhere when you work on individual parts of the crown (MUSA w/IM caps have the same problem but not as severe). Still, it looks better than it did before so I'll repeat the process a few times and see where it takes me.



I never have been able to pin point why the chino hats bulge out at the crown like that and MUSA hats donít. Iíve wondered about the material or the construction process or the size of the front crown sections. But thanks for the update, Iím thinking about getting that same Expos hat too Iíd like to see how it plays out for you.
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Fittedguy16
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Post Posted: 03/10/18 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Construction process is right....
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MrRedLegs
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Joined: 19 Nov 2015
Posts: 127
Location: Chicago

Post Posted: 03/11/18 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Royal Laegotti wrote:
Guy Gadbois wrote:
Took another go at fixing my BP Retro Classic. Nu-cap and an iron greatly reduced the crown wrinkles while also restoring some of the original height. These have Chino-stiff brims so a little steam allowed me to flatten the brim fairly quickly.

But after all that, the ugly Chino crown bulge returned as well. As I said before, I think this is largely due to lack of 'pinches' at the base of the crown. So I took a hairdryer to soften the buckram and then manually pinched the bottom corners of the crown myself. Initial results are promising but the overall Chino stiffness of the crown causes side effects to occur elsewhere when you work on individual parts of the crown (MUSA w/IM caps have the same problem but not as severe). Still, it looks better than it did before so I'll repeat the process a few times and see where it takes me.



I never have been able to pin point why the chino hats bulge out at the crown like that and MUSA hats donít. Iíve wondered about the material or the construction process or the size of the front crown sections. But thanks for the update, Iím thinking about getting that same Expos hat too Iíd like to see how it plays out for you.



Guru needs to weigh in here, but he's previously said that the brim is attached differently in the USA manufacturing process than in China's. I'm not sure if that causes the extra-bulgy crowns or it's something else -- a different grade of buckram material in China, perhaps?

But the differing construction process certainly has something to do with how hard it is for collectors like Guy (and me) to reduce the bulbous China crowns with heat and moisture.
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 03/11/18 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I want to say it's 100% material. Breaking in a cheap material cap is hard.

Feel test.

This only works if you have a chino cap placed next to a pre IM poly. Poke the crown to the left or right of the logo. Chino material tends to make a popping sound. It never tends to want to lose its shape. Pre 2016 non IM poly and us made wool doesn't make a sound.

Sadly I'm now noticing with 2017 and later MUSA IM poly, that it has the same popping sound as Chino caps. Makes sense as they both essentially use imported materials (not imported to china as that's likely the original source). A couple MUSA HC caps also have that cheap sound to them.

It's weird because I have some Musa IM caps from 2016 and those seemed fine. I just think we're getting to the quality level where MUSA means nothing anymore

Guy gadbois, appreciate you documenting the break in of the cap. I think sometimes other than running the cap over or beating it with a bat, there is little to be done. I mentioned in another post. I have a poly USA and poly chino that I wear a lot and swear in. Chino still looks brand new. Slightly bulging crown has never gone down. USA has the soft broken in almost deflated crown.
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titans1127
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Post Posted: 03/21/18 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If that Expos cap came in blue instead of red I would have been all over it.
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soxkrazy
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Post Posted: 03/27/18 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Red Sox TATC is now part of this line. Up in Lids now.
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jy2k2
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Post Posted: 03/27/18 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
soxkrazy wrote:
The Red Sox TATC is now part of this line. Up in Lids now.



are these Lids hats china made??
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Azfan
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Joined: 07 Sep 2011
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Post Posted: 03/27/18 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I still dont see how they can get the details on these caps wrong, there's pictures out there of actual caps they could have used. I mean really, a metallic teal brim on the Dbacks?
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jy2k2
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Post Posted: 03/27/18 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lids have their own batting wahoo up https://www.lids.com/cleveland-indians-new-era-mlb-wahoo-custom-59fifty-cap/20997511
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Hat Guru
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Post Posted: 03/27/18 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jy2k2 wrote:
soxkrazy wrote:
The Red Sox TATC is now part of this line. Up in Lids now.



are these Lids hats china made??


Affirmative.
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Dinsmore16
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Joined: 11 Oct 2014
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Location: WSU

Post Posted: 03/27/18 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hat Guru wrote:
jy2k2 wrote:
soxkrazy wrote:
The Red Sox TATC is now part of this line. Up in Lids now.



are these Lids hats china made??


Affirmative.


Every cap I've seen so far has been Vietnam. My assumption is that it will be a mix, or Lids is worse than my imagination and had the entire run made in Vietnam.
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Hat Guru
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Post Posted: 03/28/18 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dinsmore16 wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
jy2k2 wrote:
soxkrazy wrote:
The Red Sox TATC is now part of this line. Up in Lids now.



are these Lids hats china made??


Affirmative.


Every cap I've seen so far has been Vietnam. My assumption is that it will be a mix, or Lids is worse than my imagination and had the entire run made in Vietnam.


If by "mix" you mean a mix of Chinese and Vietnamese then you are on to something.

Who knows, maybe you will luck out and get a slick Bangladeshi made one!
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